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MoldCAD



Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:06 am    Post subject: Workflow Reply with quote

Hi Vlad,

As you might remember, I've used the excellent NV plugin for Vegas pro for several years now. I do multi-camera classical music events, and so far it was only necessary to apply some cleaning here and there (only with those events coming from more noisy cameras, or not properly li, etc.).

Now I am facing a much more difficult job; practically the whole (over 1 hour long) event needs de-noising. Please advise which workflow would work best:

- apply (and configure) the NV plgin like I used to, i.e. on the event-by-event basis (there are hundreds of events, or takes on Vegas timeline, coming from all 6 cameras), or

- apply NV on the whole material (i.e. once to the entire video bus)?

Of course the second method is easier to me - but will it work?

Thanks

Piotr
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NVTeam



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 2238

PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Technically, it will work, but the quality may suffer. If the noise is different in different scenes, different cameras, then it is best to treat them individually. If it is the same then you can them in a group. Perhaps some of the clips are the same in terms of the noise, some are different, so I recommend to be careful with grouping.

Thank you,
Vlad
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MoldCAD



Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Vlad.

Basically, I have so many separate timeline events in this multi-camera project that I'm facing a 0-1 dilemma: either apply some "averaged" filtration setting to all separate files at the "Media Level", or give de-noising up all together. Adjusting separate settings for each individual event would take too long time.

So I just tried the former, and it looks like the relaxed settings would provide a good compromise for the fragment of timeline I rendered out (some 5 mins of video, containing some 100 events). However, here I'm facing another problem for the first time since I started to use NV:

- there are some places (especially fade-ins between adjacent clips) where the rendered video just gets corrupted (scattered/torn/pixelated).

How to avoid that?

OK, still experimenting... I have further relaxed denoising (on the Media Bin level) by setting the Radius to 0, Threshold to 0, and checking off Adaptive Filtration but NOT "No lag mode". Now I have no shift between audio and video (with No Lag mode ON, it was huuge - why?!!!), also no picture distortion at cross-fades - BUT am getting HORRIBLE interlace artifacts. When played back with VLC and deinterlace=ON, the picture is almost strobing. I see such bad results for the first time - without NV, the same material (interlaced) renders out just fine and plays smoothly with auto-deinterlacing.

I feel I'm close, but what do I do wrong with the cadence?
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NVTeam



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 2238

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re: How to avoid that?

I don't know what exactly is going on there in your project so it is difficult to say. Perhaps try to change the place where you use the filter: if you use it in an event, try to move it to the track or vise versa.

In any case, it is not very efficient to discuss that without having some simple reproducible test case that we could both run, reproduce the problem, identify the causes and find a solution. Could you prepare such a test case please: a project with one or two (as necessary) short (1-2 seconds would be sufficient) clips and all the filters already set up, so that the project would directly reproduce the problem upon rendering in Vegas? Please send such a test case to our support and we will check it.

Thank you,
Vlad
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MoldCAD



Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will do, Vlad - but before I find some time to upload it, here is my observation when aplying NV to media in my project Media Bin in Vegas Pro 11:

- the "No Lag" checkbox must NOT be checked, or I'll be getting video with definitely wrong cadence (the deinterlaced image is jerky and "ghosted"

Does it make sense?
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NVTeam



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 2238

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something must be wrong in that project (probably the order of fields in the project settings) and that is most likely not related to the "No Lag Mode" at all.. Will know better when we have a reproducible test case.

Thank you,
Vlad
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MoldCAD



Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vlad,

This is a very urgent question:

- is the latest NV supposed to keep audio/video sync in Vegas Pro 11, when the video and audio are rendered out as separate elementary streams to be used on a BD/DVD?

- is the 'no lag' mode absolutely necessary to achieve that?

PS. I'm reluctant to use the 'no lag' mode as I found it to use those quirks in partial renders of my project mentioned above in my original post. The project is a live, classical music coverage so the perfect sync is of paramount importance to me. Since rendering the whole project takes ages, please only confirm the 'no lag' is guaranteed to keep sync if you're 100% positive (I'm aware Vegas has posed some problems with that since the beginning of Neat Video existence, but just want to learn the current state of the matters).

Thanks,

Piotr
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NVTeam



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Piotr,

It is not Neat Video's job to keep audio and video in sync. Neat Video works only with the video stream, it doesn't know that the audio stream even exists. It is a job of Vegas to keep streams in sync.

Before "No Lag Mode" was added, Neat Video introduced a delay into the video stream (because of the way Vegas worked). With "No Lag Mode", you can tell Neat Video to work in such a way as to avoid introducing that delay. So once "No Lag Mode" is enabled, Neat Video does not introduce any delay into the video stream it processes. That is the only place where Neat Video could introduce a delay (potentially leading to a missync in Vegas) and that place is secure now - just use "No Lag Mode". If you get a missync even with that then it is a question to Vegas, not to Neat Video.
And I can only speak for Neat Video.

Vlad
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