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again on Vegas Pro lag...
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MoldCAD



Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:57 am    Post subject: again on Vegas Pro lag... Reply with quote

Sorry if this is beating a dead horse, but I'm under a tremendous time pression (please see http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=779311&Replies=3), and I need a definitive answer to the following questions (my goal being absolutely no lag in my already synchronized music project):

1. With the previous version of NV (2.0), which will give better results:

- setting radius to a non -zero value, and checking the no-lag mode
- setting radius to zero

2. Does the newest NV version deal better with this lag problem in Vegas Pro?

Thanks Vlad,

Piotr
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NVTeam



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 2237

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. v2.0 didn't have the no-lag mode, it was added in v2.6. Using that option is the best solution overall.

2. v2.6 introduced that solution to the Vegas lag problem, and v3.0 uses the same solution too.

Vlad
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MoldCAD



Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, so I confused the version numbers - of course I'm using 2.6. Please answer question 1 for me, as I cannot seem to be able to get rid of lag completely - even with temporal filter off!

Is this normal with VP 10/NV 2.6?

Piotr
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NVTeam



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you enable the no-lag option then Neat Video itself will not introduce any lag. If you then see any lag still, it is not caused by Neat Video, perhaps by output codec or some other part of the rendering workflow.

Vlad
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MoldCAD



Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vlad,

I have rendered the very same clip using the very same codec and settings, in 2 versions - one with, the other without the NV plugin. Unfortunately, while the non-NV version is exactly the same length as the original, and aligns with it perfectly on Vegas T/L one under another - the same cannot be said about the clip, rendered with the NV filter... Even though I even went as far as turn the temporal filtration off completely.

Piotr
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NVTeam



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You compare "with filter" and "without filter". What happens if you use any other filter instead of NV?.. Please try that.

Vlad
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MoldCAD



Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry Vlad - I did try the same clip with a couple of other FXes (Sony's own Curves, or the AAV Colorlab's White Balance) - and when I render the same clip to another track, the original and the output align perfectly...

Add NV 2.6 - and even with temporal filtration off, the rendered clip is slightly "longer" on the T/L, and I can't find even a single moment in time when it's in perfect sync with the original!

Piotr

PS: One last question: I notice that with temporal filtering radius set to 0, the "No lag" option is still "alive" (i.e. not greyed out like the rest of them) - should it make a difference whether it's checked or not?
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NVTeam



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry Piotr, cannot reproduce the problem on our side so far. Something must be different in your project/video clips.

The radius=0 disables the temporal filter in NV, so the N-frame lag (N = radius) normally introduced by the temporal filter (when no-lag option is not used) is not introduced (0-frame lag is the absence of lag). In other words: with radius=0, NV itself does not introduce any lags, irrespective of other settings.

The no-lag option allows to avoid that N-frame lag even when radius>0.

So, if you enable the no-lag option, then NV itself will not introduce any lag in the video stream it processes (with any radius). It will receive each input frame, process it and output it without a delay of N or any other number of frames, that is without lags.

Please try to enable/disable that option and see how the lag changes. It should change by N frames (N = temporal filter radius you use).

There are no other sources of lag in NV in Vegas. If you see any other lag or myssync then it must be Vegas (or some of its components, like codecs) itself. Perhaps something related to that 29.97 vs 30.00 fps issue.

Vlad
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Joran



Joined: 08 Jan 2006
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Location: Oslo, Norway

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would the “lag-problem” be eliminated if you created an OFX version of NV for Sony Vegas?

Jøran Toresen
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NVTeam



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So far we couldn't reproduce the problem reported by MoldCAD. Even with the classic plug-in. I would appreciate if you provided some test case that allowed to see it directly.

Thank you,
Vlad
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MoldCAD



Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Vlad,

I'd be happy to provide you with the clip in question - but of course it's too large for email attachment; how do I send it to you?

Also, I have another question: is v3 supposed to work even faster with the VP11 which is CUDA-accelerated by itself?

Thanks

Piotr
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NVTeam



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Piotr,

Could you try to reproduce the problem in a small fresh new test project with a small clip instead? It would be easier to send (to support [at] neatvideo.com) and it would be the whole project, ready to render and reproduce the problem.

Regarding CUDA and Vegas 11, v3 itself will most likely work the same fast as in any other version of Vegas, unless Vegas uses a lot of CUDA resources, which may slow down the other CUDA user - NV. Generally, the fact Vegas uses CUDA does not in itself help NV itself in any way, but of course may help to speed up the overall rendering in Vegas.

Vlad
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MoldCAD



Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would love to, but a project that shows the difference between the original and rendered clips' lengths is some 160MB - my email account will not allow that (it's just soem 30 secs of video, and any shorter one would produce a hardly noticeable length difference)...

Any ftp, please?

Piotr
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NVTeam



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please try to upload to one of the numerous file sharing services (after all, they must do something useful at least sometimes).

Thank you,
Vlad
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MoldCAD



Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, here is the link to one of them:

http://www.4shared.com/file/n5pXVBdV/NV_elongates_clips.html

Please inspect how the rendered clip gets longer than the original; also - even though the original 29,97 fps was rendered to 25 fps (in a 25 fps project), this doesn't make any difference as rendering to 29,97 in a 29,97 fps project produces an even longer file!

Please comment

Piotr
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