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clip rendered in Premiere shows watermark in Encore
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Steve C



Joined: 20 May 2010
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:45 am    Post subject: clip rendered in Premiere shows watermark in Encore Reply with quote

Hi,

This worked for me until recently. Any suggestions?

I have Premiere Pro CS 5.0.3 and Encore CS 5.0.0.508 running on Windows 7/64. Neatvideo is version 2.6 64-bit. Until recently, I was able to use my registered copy of Neatvideo successfully. Now, I render a clip with Neatvideo and it doesn't show the watermark in Premiere Pro. However, in Encore, it shows with the watermark that is displayed when Neatvideo has not been purchased and/or registered.

I went into Premiere Pro and re-rendered, in case the clip was corrupted and the problem happens with the re-rendered clip, when viewed in Encore.

Sometimes, when I go back to Premiere to review the clip, I get a six-step dialog box that starts "Premiere has not provided Neat Video with a frame required to use setup..."

Thanks,
Steve
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NVTeam



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 2237

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you open Neat Video's main windows in Premiere, does the plug-in ask to register itself?
You say that it worked in Encore correctly earlier. What has changed recently? Have you re-install anything? Any updates?
Have you installed both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of the plug-in? Do you have any 32-bit version of Premiere installed to check if the 32-bit version works correctly?

Re: "Premiere has not provided Neat Video with a frame required to use setup..."
Sometimes one of the items specified in that list is indeed true and then the solution is to identify and address that item. It is necessary to check them all, yes, there is no way around it. What is happening is Premiere is not providing a frame. Why it is not doing that? - One of those possible reasons. Perhaps there are also other points that need to be checked, we may not know them all yet.

Vlad
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Steve C



Joined: 20 May 2010
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Vlad,

I only have the 64-bit version of Neatvideo installed. This is the only version that will matter for me, I believe, since Premiere Pro CS 6 is a 64-bit only app.

I don't think that I should normally need to do any of the six items in the dialog checklist. But, this is my guess. I did look at the list. Some of the things are obvious, such as having the track enabled. Please note, since I might not have made it clear, the video sequence successfully rendered before I imported it into my Encore project. The successfully rendered sequence and the clips contained within it do not show the watermark. The watermark only shows in Encore. Only when I go back into Premiere (I had already closed it) does the 6-step dialog appear when I click on the Neatvideo effect.

Please note that this problem is new for me. I have successfully used Neatvideo on this particular PC since last summer with CS 5.

Thanks,
Steve
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NVTeam



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 2237

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Premiere CS5 itself is 64-bit, it can use only 64-bit plug-ins. Encore is 32-bit, it can use only 32-bit plug-ins. It is likely that you also have the 32-bit version of NV installed but it may be not registered yet, causing such an effect: watermark in Encore, from the 32-bit plug-in; no watermark in Premiere, from the 64-bit plug-in. Please double-check whether you have the 32-bit plug-in installed. Also, do you have any 32-bit version of Premiere installed? It would help you verify whether you have the 32-bit NV installed and whether it is registered correctly.

Regarding the error message, it is possible that Premiere does not supply a frame to the plug-in because the sequence is rendered and Premiere thinks that it is not necessary to send a frame to the filter plug-in anymore. If you reset the rendered status by adjusting any filter setting then it will probably change its mind and will send a frame to the filter.

Vlad
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Steve C



Joined: 20 May 2010
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Vlad,

I only have 64-bit Neatvideo installed and it is used with Premiere Pro. This is all that I have needed - I have never needed to use 32-bit Neatvideo with Encore in the past. In fact, one does not use Neatvideo with Encore unless that is an option that I am unaware of. I did not explain the purpose of Encore, but it is nothing more than a menu creation and DVD burn program to be used with Premiere Pro. There is not really any effects processing within Encore - that takes place in Premiere Pro. After the rendered sequence/clips are imported into Encore, all that remains is the creation of menu(s) and transcoding of the rendered sequence/clips prior to burning. Since the sequence/clips is correctly rendered before I leave Premiere Pro, I am guessing that the problem not one of whether Neatvideo is registered. There are two reasons for my skepticism on this - first, the watermark would be obvious in Premiere Pro even before rendering the video. Secondly, when I return to Premiere Pro and review the clip(s), the watermark is not visible. It's only visible in Encore.

Again, I never had this problem before. Should I reinstall Neatvideo, or are there some other issues. Would it be helpful if I called tech support and explained the problem in greater detail?

Thanks,
Steve
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NVTeam



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve C wrote:
I only have 64-bit Neatvideo installed
You never installed the 32-bit plug-in, is that correct?

Steve C wrote:
I have never needed to use 32-bit Neatvideo with Encore in the past. In fact, one does not use Neatvideo with Encore unless that is an option that I am unaware of.

Encore may in principle invoke Premiere plug-ins indirectly, without explicit filters in Encore itself. If Encore uses Premiere project then it may also use Premiere filters and then the question is which ones, 32-bit or 64-bit ones. It can be either ones, because Encore itself is 32-bit and Premiere itself is 64-bit. So I am not sure which ones Encore would use, which is why I am trying to check if you also have the 32-bit plug-in installed (which may be present but remain unregistered, causing the problem).

Steve C wrote:
After the rendered sequence/clips are imported into Encore, all that remains is the creation of menu(s) and transcoding of the rendered sequence/clips prior to burning. Since the sequence/clips is correctly rendered before I leave Premiere Pro, I am guessing that the problem not one of whether Neatvideo is registered. There are two reasons for my skepticism on this - first, the watermark would be obvious in Premiere Pro even before rendering the video. Secondly, when I return to Premiere Pro and review the clip(s), the watermark is not visible. It's only visible in Encore.

So either the project is actually re-rendered when it is being processed in Encore (for example, using an unregistered plug-in, producing the watermark) or Encore receives rendered data already with watermark, which would indicate a problem in Premiere rendering. I was asking about the 32-bit plug-in in relation to the first possibility. The second possibility could be checked by closer inspection of the rendered materials in Premiere itself. Perhaps the watermark is there but you look for it in preview rather than in the final output of the render, in the output file.

Steve C wrote:
Again, I never had this problem before. Should I reinstall Neatvideo, or are there some other issues. Would it be helpful if I called tech support and explained the problem in greater detail?

The symptoms were more or less clear after your first message. But I still need more information about the setup, the installed software, and the like, - the things that I asked about earlier. I am just trying to collect the necessary background details (like that about the 32-bit version, that may be important) and perhaps a reproducable test case.

Could you try to reproduce this issue in a fresh test project with just one short clip? Please try to render it and see if the problem is reproducable. If it is reproducable please send us (support [at] neatvideo.com) the test project (and the clip) and add some short description of steps to be taken in order to reproduce the problem. We will follow your instruction, reproduce the issue and then determine the cause.

Thank you,
Vlad
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Steve C



Joined: 20 May 2010
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Vlad,

Thanks. I will try a couple of tests - first without the 32-bit plugin in a new Premiere Project and then with the 32-bit plugin installed prior to the test (if the first test fails).

Steve
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NVTeam



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 2237

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The two key things to check about the 32-bit plug-in is (1) whether it is installed and then (2) whether it is registered (to check that you may need to run it in some 32-bit version of Premiere).

Thank you,
Vlad
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Steve C



Joined: 20 May 2010
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Vlad,

I think I now understand the nature of the problem, but I would appreciate your thoughts.

As you noted, Encore CS 5 is 32-bit while Premiere Pro CS 5 is 64-bit. I am using the Adobe Dynamic Link to either push or pull rendered sequences from Premiere Pro to Encore.

If I push the rendered sequence from Premiere Pro to Encore, it shows up fine within Encore. All I have to do is transcode the clip(s) and work on the menu. However, if I start Encore and then pull the desired rendered sequences from Premiere Pro via Adobe Dynamic Link, the rendering is lost and therefore the watermark appears within the clips in the Encore monitor. Furthermore, what happens is that if one goes back into Premiere Pro, while the sequence still looks rendered, if one clicks on the Neatvideo effect as if one were to change sharpening or something else, one gets the six-step diagnostic dialog. The way to remove this problem is to delete the rendering that had previously been done and start all over again.

The first question is - does my explanation make sense?
The second question is - does installing the 32-bit version of Neatvideo solve the problem that I described? I did not need to install the 32-bit plugin in order to reproduce the problem. It would seem to me that if the 32-bit plugin were installed, it does not address the problem. One would need to re-render the imported sequence anyway.
The third question is- does the 32-bit plugin give as good a result as the 64-bit plugin?
The fourth question is - if I'm correct, would it be possible for the developers to implement a workaround for the future. What I have in mind is something akin to a virtual 32-bit install/registration that would take place when one installed and registered the 64-bit plugin?
The fifth question is - if I'm correct and the issue is not with Neatvideo, could someone on your side communicate the issue to Adobe.

You likely know why I am interested in pulling rendered sequences into Encore, but I will state them...
1) On a big project, it makes it easier to work on different parts or assign different parts of a project to different people and then simply integrate them in Encore.
2) Since there is no color/light calibration for Premiere, if a sequence needs to be re-edited, one can simply re-imported the revised sequence without losing the menu-related and/or other sequence work.
3) One can work on developing a menu, in Encore, while a clip transcodes.

Thanks,
Steve
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NVTeam



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your observations make sense and it is good that you can already narrow down the conditions to certain degree. It is possible that pulling is done using 32-bit components, unlike pushing, which is most likely done by 64-bit Premiere itself. However, this will remain mostly guessing on my part until we can run the same process on our computers and reproduce the same results. Therefore, to actually help we need to be able to directly reproduce the problem on our test machines. This is most important.

Could you please prepare a test case (a test project with a short clip + a detailed step-by-step instruction to reproduce the problem) and e-mail it to support [at] neatvideo.com? Our technical specialists and testers will follow your instruction, use your test case to reproduce the issue and then will determine the cause of the problem. It is quite possible that they will also find a solution right away. Usually, this is the fastest way to find a solution and resolve the problem.

Thank you,
Vlad
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Steve C



Joined: 20 May 2010
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Vlad,

Thanks. I will work on a test clip and script over the weekend, time permitting. Please let me know the shortest acceptable clip length, for purposes of testing on your end, in case there are issues with the size of files that I can send.

Thanks,
Steve
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NVTeam



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 2237

PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A 1 second clip would be fine, as long as it allows to reproduce the problem.

The problem may be specific to the project settings, clips settings, NV settings, type of NV installed, etc. Once we have a test project that is confirmed to be sufficient to reproduce the problem (of course, following your instruction), we will run it on test machines in diffferent configurations and see which changes trigger the problem. This will help us determine the key responsible component.

Vlad
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Steve C



Joined: 20 May 2010
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Vlad,

Just wanted to give an update and get your thoughts.

I did a couple of tests by creating a new project and have not been able to reproduce the problem (at least, not for now).

There is a difference in these tests - I shot new video without sound. The problem (which I previously had reproduced, had sound). I can continue to test with video with sound, but since I ran the test twice without sound, I would guess that Neatvideo might not be the problem. I am willing to continue the test, but I don't want to hold you up. I might not be able to continue until next week.

Do you want to know more about the nature of the video that caused the problem and see if I can reproduce the problem again with it, resume next week, or close the problem for now since I was able to successfully pull rendered code from Premiere Pro that didn't contain sound?

Thanks,
Steve
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NVTeam



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 2237

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Steve,

If there is an unexpected watermark in some cases, it must be something unusual, potentially a bug. Therefore, I would of course like to reproduce it, analyze it, determine the cause and find a solution.

If you will have some time, perhaps later on, please try to create (or extract from your actual project) a reproducable test case and let us study it. We have already tried some direct tests in CS5, but so far have not been able to reproduce the watermark. Your input is very welcome, even if it will take some more time.

Thank you,
Vlad
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Steve C



Joined: 20 May 2010
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Vlad,

I will get back to hopefully next week. Thank you for your interest.

Steve
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