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Some frames fm previous scene shown in next scene (Studio)

 
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Smitty



Joined: 08 Mar 2009
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:12 am    Post subject: Some frames fm previous scene shown in next scene (Studio) Reply with quote

I have a problem and I can't figure it out.
I have finished a footage of 45 minutes in Studio. As ususal I've put all the scenes (created automatically by Studio) on the timeline. On every scene I have used a profile (see my topic in the other section). And everything seemed really great. Some "unrealistic" scene I have only used the temporal filter. But tonight when I was really looking carefully to the movie on PC and TV I have noticed that there are some scenes which shows a few frames of the previous scene in this new scene. It might have been coincidence but they show more at the end of the footage Where I also have a lot of different scenes in the woods, near waterfalls etc. But I think that's just coincidence. You really have to pay good attention but you can see it. On PC even better and it's a little bit disturbing to see quickly some frames of the previous scene in the new scene.
I have checked the original footage and it's without the problem. Most of the footage doesn't have the problem.
Everywhere I have also the option Adaptive Filtration enabled, so that's not the problem I think. Temporal filter almost everywhere 2 frames. But later I had maybe set that higher to 4 or 5. Unfortunately I haven't the original project anymore with that settings in Studio. Yesterday I overwrote that so I can't check it. But I think that more near the end I raised the temporal filter. Also threshold sometimes to 10% but in my test earlier with NV I hadn't that on and I have seen it has the some problem.
I thought I have written somewhere here that maybe another person had the same kind of problem in Vegas but I'm not sure.

I hope this is a known problem, so maybe someone can help me. Because I have some other footage to do. And besides this problem this tool is giving me already good results. And I will not like the idea that this small problem will stop me fm using this great tool !
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NVTeam



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 2238

PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not sure whether it is the same effect but we did observe that Pinnacle Studio sometimes didn't provide the right frames to the plug-in if a clip was split into several parts. I guess such behaviour of Studio may cause the effect that you observed too. In out tests, that only occured in some versions/updates of Pinnacle Studio so it looked like a bug in Studio (we reported it to the developers of Pinnacle Studio). Which version of Studio do you use? Could you try to update Studio for a test?

Also, please describe the effect in some more details:
- when you see a frame from the previous clip in the current clip, is it just a single frame or a series of frames?
- do the frames from two clips intermix and flip back and forth several times or it is a one-time switch from one to another clip delayed after beginning of the second clip?
- when does this effect occur, how many frames from the start of the current frame?

Thank you,
Vlad
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Smitty



Joined: 08 Mar 2009
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use Pinnacle Studio 12 Ultimate. I haven't updated till 12.1 yet, because on forums I have seen several persons who had more problems (not with NV but with other things) after the update patch then before.

I'd like to help you and give you more information, but I don't know for example how I can see / check (in Studio) how many frames fm the previous clip I see in the next one.

I'm also sorry I have to say you that I don't understand (maybe because english is not my mother language):
- do the frames from two clips intermix and flip back and forth several times or it is a one-time switch from one to another clip delayed after beginning of the second clip?

What I find strange is, that for a great part of the footage I don't have these problems, so that is makes me think that maybe (??) the problem is with the temporal filter. It also seems a little bit like some of the problems (see other topic) people had within Vegas or am I wrong ?
I've seen you suggested them to put for example a crossfade between it so probably you won't notice it.

For yr info:
The original footage (recorded with DVD recorder fm VHS cassette) is imported in MPEG-2 format in Studio. Then I did all the edit work in Studio (cutting clips, some small effects, put some crossfades etc. But not too much because the result then distract too much the viewer(s) ).
Then I saved everything in AVI (I think Studio will make it DV-AVI format).

And with that file I started using NV.

Maybe I can save a smal part of the footage (in which these problems occurs) and send it to you by mail so you can see by yourself ??
If yes pls let me know in which format you prefer it and the max size of the file so I know exactly what to send you.

I'll wait for yr instructions before going on ?



NVTeam wrote:
I am not sure whether it is the same effect but we did observe that Pinnacle Studio sometimes didn't provide the right frames to the plug-in if a clip was split into several parts. I guess such behaviour of Studio may cause the effect that you observed too. In out tests, that only occured in some versions/updates of Pinnacle Studio so it looked like a bug in Studio (we reported it to the developers of Pinnacle Studio). Which version of Studio do you use? Could you try to update Studio for a test?

Also, please describe the effect in some more details:
- when you see a frame from the previous clip in the current clip, is it just a single frame or a series of frames?
- do the frames from two clips intermix and flip back and forth several times or it is a one-time switch from one to another clip delayed after beginning of the second clip?
- when does this effect occur, how many frames from the start of the current frame?

Thank you,
Vlad
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NVTeam



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 2238

PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smitty wrote:
I'm also sorry I have to say you that I don't understand (maybe because english is not my mother language):
- do the frames from two clips intermix and flip back and forth several times or it is a one-time switch from one to another clip delayed after beginning of the second clip?

Basically, I would like to understand how does it look like in the rendered footage.

Smitty wrote:
What I find strange is, that for a great part of the footage I don't have these problems, so that is makes me think that maybe (??) the problem is with the temporal filter.

Maybe. Or maybe with the way Pinnacle Studio serves frames to plug-ins in the end of a long project. There may be errors that accumulate to the end of the project in Studio. We observed such an issue in some versions of Studio before.

Smitty wrote:
It also seems a little bit like some of the problems (see other topic) people had within Vegas or am I wrong ?

I do not yet have a complete understanding of the effect that you observe (and therefore of the reasons behind it), but I see no relation to the Vegas problem so far. It seems to be an unrelated issue.

Smitty wrote:
Maybe I can save a smal part of the footage (in which these problems occurs) and send it to you by mail so you can see by yourself ??
If yes pls let me know in which format you prefer it and the max size of the file so I know exactly what to send you.

Yes, please prepare a small sample project that allows to reproduce the effect. Then compress the whole project (please keep the size below 100MB, the smaller the better) and used clips into one ZIP file, upload it to rapidshare.com and e-mail me the download link. I will download the project, render it, reproduce the effect and check what is causing it. Also, please include some short clip showing the problem itself, in case the problem is not immediately reproducable on our machines.

Thank you very much.

Vlad
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Smitty



Joined: 08 Mar 2009
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Answering on :
"Maybe. Or maybe with the way Pinnacle Studio serves frames to plug-ins in the end of a long project. There may be errors that accumulate to the end of the project in Studio. We observed such an issue in some versions of Studio before"

I don't think that's the problem. Because I made a smal clip (1 min) of some scenes where I had the problem". So it's no longer at the end and I had the same problems.
I also made a lot of test with several settings. With and without temporal filter, several noise profiles, with and without options High Quality and Hig res etc etc. But the problem is always there.

The only thing I always have on (and did not try to disable it yet) is Adaptive Filtration. But I can not think about that's the problem.

I really cannot think of changing some other settings what might change this.

About that Vegas thing....I will look it up in the forum and will link the topic in here. Maybe you're right and it has nothing to do with this.

I don't think I will be very often on the PC for the rest of the week for making some samples for you etc. I think it will be next week.

I only don't know which files of Studio you need. When I make a project it saves a *.stx file in the directory and a folder (but not a normal windows folder it seems) with the same name of the project, but that one you cannot open. So I don't know what exactly (besides the clip in MPG or AVI ? I will use for the project) I need to upload.
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NVTeam



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 2238

PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe not. Lets not guess, lets see it together and then it will be more clear.

Regarding Vegas, please do not link unrelated topics to not create extra confusion. Vegas has its own problem, it has nothing to do with Pinnacle. Pinnacle has that specific function required for temporal processing while Vegas doesn't have it at all. The problem in Vegas is caused by that absence.

About the project: please create a new folder, then create a new test project inside that folder. Copy all clips used in the project to the same folder before using them in the project. Then compress that whole folder and upload the resulting ZIP. That should be sufficient to open the project on our computers and reproduce the results.

Thank you,
Vlad
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Smitty



Joined: 08 Mar 2009
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok
I will create the new folder, test project etc. Normally I create a project and then I use the whole footage on my PC (in this case circa 45 min) which is one MPEG-2 file for the editing. But now we just need a small piece of the video for the test, right ? So I will put some of the problem scenes on the timeline (without editing and without NV etc). I will save these scenes in 1 file (do you want AVI or MPEG-2 ?). After that I wil put this new (unedited) file on the timeline. I create a project with this file on the time line. This is what I thought to do after :
I make a copy of these new scenes (created before in 1 file) on the timeline (by copy / past options on the timeline in Studio)). The first part I leave it as it is (so without using anything, so no NV etc). The second part I will use different kind of settings of NV (on several scenes). So you can also see what I have tried to do.
Then I (re) save the project in the created new folder (as you told before). In the same folder I will put the AVI or MPEG-2 file (=clips used for the project ) without the problems but I will also put the rendered output of the project in this folder (if its not to big as file). Ofcourse this file will be twice the size of the file used for the project.
Is it OK for you if I do it in this way ? I hope you understand what I have written. Otherwise let me know.
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NVTeam



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 2238

PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand you and have only one request: please try to keep it simple and small - just the necessary clip(s) that show only one example of the problem. I will open the project and render it on my computer and will see one example of the problem. Then I will do the necessary tests to see what is causing the problem.

I am happy with any files formats as long as Studio is able to read the project and clips.

Regarding rendered example, it doesn't have to be a full rendered version of the project. It may be a small crop from the output of the project where you first noticed the problem. If it is noticeable in that rendered clip, then it should be possible for me to see that effect in a small cutout from that large rendered clip.

Thank you,
Vlad
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