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Some Starter Questions
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hip_school_preppie



Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:59 am    Post subject: Some Starter Questions Reply with quote

Hi Folks,

I just purchased the home edition of Neat Video to use along with Sony Vegas 8.0. I have a couple of beginner questions.

1. Progressive vs. Interlaced? My video's are being rendered with the Deinterlace option set to "none" in Vegas. What should it be set to when interfacing with the Neat plugin?

2. Temporal Filter - If I set the Radius to anything but 0, the video when played on a TV looks all choppy. Is this OK to just turn this off everytime, or am I not using it right?

3. Selecting a video sample to clean after clicking Configure - it seems as though the only way to avoid getting that "Y-Axis..." error is by selecting a portion of the frame that is plain as can be. When I do that I always get that pop up that says "It should be 128x128...." and I proceed anyway. It seems to clean the video nicely still, but I feel like I'm not using this optimally. Advice?

Thanks!

-CW
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NVTeam



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 2237

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:10 am    Post subject: Re: Some Starter Questions Reply with quote

hip_school_preppie wrote:
1. Progressive vs. Interlaced? My video's are being rendered with the Deinterlace option set to "none" in Vegas. What should it be set to when interfacing with the Neat plugin?
This depends on the clips then, they can be interlaced or progressive. Set NV settings correspondingly.

hip_school_preppie wrote:
2. Temporal Filter - If I set the Radius to anything but 0, the video when played on a TV looks all choppy.
In preview or in final rendered results?

hip_school_preppie wrote:
Is this OK to just turn this off everytime
This will reduce the filtration quality of the final rendered results. Please try that to see the difference.

hip_school_preppie wrote:
3. Selecting a video sample to clean after clicking Configure - it seems as though the only way to avoid getting that "Y-Axis..." error ..
That is a warning, not error. NV feels that there may be a better area but it will work with this one too.

hip_school_preppie wrote:
is by selecting a portion of the frame that is plain as can be. When I do that I always get that pop up that says "It should be 128x128...." and I proceed anyway.
That is a warning too, you can use small area too. It is just better to use large featureless area with visible noise. Noise should be visible, the area should not be white, nor black.

Hope this helps.
Vlad
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hip_school_preppie



Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:22 am    Post subject: Re: Some Starter Questions Reply with quote

Wow - thanks for the quick response!

I guess I should have mentioned I'm converting old VHS tapes to DVD. Using Vegas to capture through a Canopus 110 and DataVideo TBC-1000.


hip_school_preppie wrote:
2. Temporal Filter - If I set the Radius to anything but 0, the video when played on a TV looks all choppy.

In preview or in final rendered results?
Final results played back on a TV from a DVD.

hip_school_preppie wrote:
Is this OK to just turn this off everytime

This will reduce the filtration quality of the final rendered results. Please try that to see the difference.
So I want to try and keep it on? When I play back the AVI with this setting on through my pc monitor it looks fine, but when burnt to a DVD and played on a TV it's all choppy like every couple of frames it jumps back a frame. When a shot is panning is when you really notice it.
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NVTeam



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 2237

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably the field order is incorrect either in original clips or project itself. That could produce such an effect. Try to change the order to see if this makes a difference.

Vlad
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hip_school_preppie



Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The field order is set to "Lower First" on Vegas. The only other options are Upper First and None (Progressive).

I'm assuming I should have the Neato plugin set to Interlaced?
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NVTeam



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would set it to interlaced, yes.

Make sure the actual field order in the clips is lower first, it can be different and causing trouble.

Vlad
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hip_school_preppie



Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NVTeam wrote:

Make sure the actual field order in the clips is lower first, it can be different and causing trouble.
Vlad

How do I figure that out?

When I set Neat Video to Interlaced and then press the Configure button the clip is doubled on top of each other and smushed in the preview pane. If I go ahead and try to Auto Profile it the end end result looks kinda blurry. When I select Progressive it looks normal in the preview pane and clean/crisp when Auto Profiled. What's up with that?
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NVTeam



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please check the media properties on the clip. Also, try to set the project to upper field to see if it makes a difference. The setting in project should correspond to the actual field order of the clip.

When you use Auto Profile, does it select a flat featureless area or an area with details (which will lead to blurry results for sure)?

Vlad
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hip_school_preppie



Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The media properties on the clip are set to lower field first.

Well, it seems like a featureless area to me. I was able to get a nice clear auto profle with Interlaced after a few tries, but I think what I actually might have done was have it set to Progressive, Configure and then AutoProfile and THEN set it back to Interlaced. Is that OK? It seems like the Configure set reacts differently initially depending upon whether you have Interlaced or Progressive checked - not during render, just during that AutoProfile process.

I'm going to try renderng the project now and wil see how it goes. I'll report back in a couple days since it's just under 1 hr. 30 min : )

Also, in regards to my previous post, have you heard of that issue when choosing Interlaced and clicking Configure only to see your clip doubled on top of itself in the AutoProfile pane? Seems fishy - basically it looks like this...


Thanks for all the help thus far - I really appreciate it.

-CW
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NVTeam



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hip_school_preppie wrote:
The media properties on the clip are set to lower field first.
Unfortunately this not necessarily means the actual clip is lower field first.

hip_school_preppie wrote:
set to Progressive, Configure and then AutoProfile and THEN set it back to Interlaced. Is that OK?
In principle this is not right, because noise in interlaced data is different from noise in progressive data.

hip_school_preppie wrote:
It seems like the Configure set reacts differently initially depending upon whether you have Interlaced or Progressive checked - not during render, just during that AutoProfile process.
Could you clarify how do you see that?

hip_school_preppie wrote:
Also, in regards to my previous post, have you heard of that issue when choosing Interlaced and clicking Configure only to see your clip doubled on top of itself in the AutoProfile pane?
When you set it to Interlaced, NV shows two fields, upper and lower, one on top of another in the viewer. The two fields are separately rendered by Vegas so NV must show them separately, so it does exactly that.

Vlad
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hip_school_preppie



Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hip_school_preppie wrote:
The media properties on the clip are set to lower field first.
Unfortunately this not necessarily means the actual clip is lower field first.

OK, but I'm still confused as to how you can verify what the actual clip is. You mean of how it was recorded onto the VHS tape?

hip_school_preppie wrote:
It seems like the Configure set reacts differently initially depending upon whether you have Interlaced or Progressive checked - not during render, just during that AutoProfile process.
Could you clarify how do you see that?

Just by the top and bottom frames in one clip like I mention in my next paragraph, which you say is normal.

I'm going to restart and really try to find a non-actionable area to AutoProfile under Interlaced now.
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NVTeam



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please disable NV (or remove from it the project) and render a small sample without it, then check which combination of field order settings in the clip and project produces good results on TV from DVD.

Then add NV back. If this makes the video any worse then please send me a small sample clip along with your sample project. I will reproduce your results and check what is going on.

Also, please let me know the pixel aspect ratios of the clip and project. Or just send me a sample project that allows to reproduct the effect, all the data should be available in it.

Vlad
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hip_school_preppie



Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got a pretty nice AutoProfile on Interlaced after playing with the sharpen advanced settings. I'm gonna try rendering this and see how it comes out. I'll report back and if things run amuck I'll send you some samples.

You can take the weekend off from my beginner ignorance Very Happy

-CW
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hip_school_preppie



Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vlad - I completed my render, burned and previewed the DVD on a Plasma set, and I must say everything looks great! No issues whatsoever. What a product!

Thanks so much for you time,

-CW
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NVTeam



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great to hear that!

Have you made any adjustments to the field order parameters in Vegas to resolve that problem?

Vlad
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