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Neat Video 4 + El Capitan + AE 2015 = crash on render

 
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markpaterson



Joined: 29 Nov 2015
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 2:21 am    Post subject: Neat Video 4 + El Capitan + AE 2015 = crash on render Reply with quote

Hi there.

I have El Capitan 10.11.1 and AE CC 2015 13.5.1

I'm currently using the demo version of Neat Video v4 (latest version downloaded today). It's awesome. Ram previews are looking great so I was seconds away from purchasing, when I figured I'd do a render and see how it looks in a finished mov.

Unfortunately, when I hit 'Render' AE instantly crashes. The same crash also happens with CC 2014.

So I went to the trouble of downloading Yosemite, making a USB installer, installing it on an external drive, and installing CC 2015 and Neat Video. Guess what… no crash! So obviously El Capitan is the problem here. Is anybody else aware of this?

I thought it might be GPU related, but it even crashes when the effect is set to CPU only.

It's extremely inconvenient for me to use Yosemite as I need that disk for other things, it's not exactly 'spare', and I don't want the mess of having 2 different working environments to maintain.

I've pasted the crash reports below


Code:
AE ERROR:

Last log message was: <123145350656000> <ExporterQuickTimeHost> <5> GetQuicktimeCodecChunkingInfo returned maxChunk = 0 maxFrame = 203889


I've posted the OS X Crash Report to PasteBin here http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=dp92MnMU

Any ideas on a workaround? Or maybe a fix is in the works?

Thanks!
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markpaterson



Joined: 29 Nov 2015
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK so i just figured out that the crash is only when rendering as PRORES.

This is extremely interesting (and at the same time depressing) as I'm having the EXACT same issue with my Blackmagic Intensity Pro 4K card when I capture in ProRes (it instantly crashes on capture). See my post about that here on the Blackmagic Forum http://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=40863

I'm guessing that Apple did something extremely dumb with ProRes in El Capitan and it basically broke everything that uses it. :Sigh:
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NVTeam



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 2238

PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have been trying to reproduce this kind of crash on our machines but so far it has been working without issues.

Could you send us (to support [at] neatvideo.com) a small test project with one short source clip that is known to reproduce this problem on your computer?

Thank you,
Vlad
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markpaterson



Joined: 29 Nov 2015
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for you help.

It's too big to email (40MB) so i'll email a Dropbox link. I should probably post it here too so the community can see if they can also reproduce the issue.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/i02z4cm5qfnzaxe/NeatVideo%20Crash.zip?dl=0

As I said, it only seems to be when the AE Output Module is configured for ProRes. The crash is instantaneous, as soon as you hit Render.

As a side note, my El Capitan is an upgraded Yosemite install. I'm interested to see if this crash happens with an El Capitan clean install. I'll try that and report back.
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NVTeam



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 2238

PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you very much! We will run it on our machines and try to reproduce the crash.

Kind regards,
Vlad
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markpaterson



Joined: 29 Nov 2015
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just created a clean install of El Capitan on a fresh partition.

I still get the crash. Sad

New crash report: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=1Pq88iUT

That's with only AE and NV4 installed.

I should maybe mention that in this clean install I didn't have the Apple ProRes codec installed (Part of the Pro Video bundle for encoding ProRes), where as on my normal El Capitan system, I do. I don't think that matters either way though because it looks like AE uses it's own internal ProRes codec, as it's quite happy to create a ProRes movie with or without the Apple version installed.

I don't own a copy of FCP or Motion so I use the manual method where you unpack Apples "Pro Video" installer and drag the codecs to the correct locations… http://www.martin-thoburn.com/vj/install-apple-prores-codec-without-final-cut
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NVTeam



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 2238

PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, we could reproduce this crash using your test project. It happens only when rendering into ProRes, while other output formats work well.

And also, it crashes even without NV. We removed NV from your test project, saved the project, restarted everything and then started the render. It crashed with an error message similar to one you posted in the very first post above.

So far it looks like a problem of AE itself but we will check other hosts too.

Vlad
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NVTeam



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 2238

PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem seems to be in the source clip itself. It doesn't work well in other software: QuickTime, VLC, FCPX. They all fail to open that clip.

You may want to check the clip and perhaps transcode it to fix the problems that may be present in it.

Vlad
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markpaterson



Joined: 29 Nov 2015
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmm. I suspect maybe your issue with not being able to open the mov is a corrupted download. I've downloaded the zip myself just now and opened the mov in QuickTime and VLC with no issues.

However, you're right about AE crashing without NV. I think I've narrowed down the problem to specifically comps using the built in AE 'PAL D1/DV' preset (aspect ratio 1.09) and rendering as ProRes.

It's this precise format that crashes Blackmagic Media Express capture too.

If I change the AE aspect to square pixel 788x576* or NTSC, it renders fine.

I suspect that El Capitan has screwed up a few things right?

* Strange, since 2000 I was always told that square pixel PAL is 768x576. After checking on a few articles about it, turns out the whole industry got it wrong. Anyway, thats off topic. haha.

.
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jpsdr



Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 193

PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

576*(4/3)=768, it's the resolution for square pixels in 4/3.
Like 480*(4/3)=640. Don't know where 788 pop up from. Maybe a typo error ('8' key hit instead of '6'...).
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markpaterson



Joined: 29 Nov 2015
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FYI: The AfterEffects CC2015 13.6 update has fixed the ProRes crashing issue described above
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markpaterson



Joined: 29 Nov 2015
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 788 was not a typo.

Some more on that here…
http://forums.cgsociety.org/archive/index.php?t-283721.html

Quote:
Most video editing systems assume that PAL 601 use a PAR of 16:15 (1.067) whereas it is actually more like 59:54 (1.0926).

This gives you a square res of 786.672(1.0926 x720) rounded to 788 as opposed to usual 768.24 (1.067x 720).

Likewise the true PAR for PAL Widescreen is 118:81 (1.4568) which gives a horizontal res of 1048.896 (rounded to 1050).


So, there is a false assumption of PAR that is longstanding and established which results in 768, when if youre being 100% correct it should be 788, but due to some kind of mistake eons ago it is not that way.
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jpsdr



Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 193

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the information.
Personnaly, i'm not realy convinced, it somehow give me a strange feeling of "doing things backward (and so eventualy wrongly)"...
Like saying "Look how the world is well made, river goes throught town", just forgetting that in the begining town were build over rivers...
Well, i'll not discuss more, because it will be off topic and long, but that's my personnal feeling over it. But, i may be wrong.

EDIT : I think i know where the error can came from.
Don't forget that DVD has 3 possible horizontal sizes in the specs : 352,704 and 720.
704x1.0926=769.19 => 768.
My think, is that they have wrongly used the PAR value for 704 on 720. After, it's only my think.
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