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Neat Video v4 & Calibration Targets

 
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JDW



Joined: 28 Sep 2015
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:55 pm    Post subject: Neat Video v4 & Calibration Targets Reply with quote

I have read the information provided at the following URL:

https://www.neatvideo.com/profiling-target.html

I have also read some posts on the subject in this forum, but there are several things that are still not clear to me, hence this post. My aim is to create a good set of noise profiles from a Calibration Target, for use with my Lumix GX-7 camera, for use in cases where I cannot find a detail free section of video to create a noise profile normally. I typically shoot at 1080p, 60fps.

First, I read that there is little difference between the B&W and Color Calibration Target. If true, why not use only one? Why present us with two? I must therefore assume that one is slightly better than the other. The color one? Or does the B&W cal. target improve B&W video whereas the color cal. target is intended for color video?

Second, what paper size would be ideal to print to? Should we use A3 paper, A4, B4?? Even if it matters little, which would be preferred a larger target?

Third, there are so many different camera settings. Creating a comprehensive set of profiles would be a formidable job. Must I truly create a separate profile for every single ISO setting, then repeat that under indoor and outdoor lighting, then repeat all of that for every level of depth of field, then do all of that for multiple lenses? If so, the sheer number of profiles and time required would be absolutely incredible. What kind of guidance can you provide on this point?

Fourth, I see donated profiles on your website that were kindly made public by others for use with Neat Image, but none for Neat Video. Is there a reason why no one is using (or no one is donating) video profiles? Do more people use Neat Image than Neat Video?

Fifth, when shooting the Calibration Target (printed on paper), should we cut the target exactly to size (so there is no white paper border around it, and then affix that to black paper? Or should the border around the target be white?

Sixth, you say to shoot the Calibration Target slightly out of focus, but then in another place you say to set the lens at Infinity or Macro. That isn't very exact information. Just how "out of focus" is IDEAL? Do I need to blur it out so the text is unreadable? Or do I make the focus just slightly fuzzy? And why does this even matter? (If you said, "blur out the cal. target until the text is just barely unreadable" would be rather specific information that I can easily follow, but "blur it slightly" is just too vague.)

Thank you.
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NVTeam



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 2237

PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Neat Video v4 & Calibration Targets Reply with quote

JDW wrote:

First, I read that there is little difference between the B&W and Color Calibration Target. If true, why not use only one? Why present us with two? I must therefore assume that one is slightly better than the other. The color one? Or does the B&W cal. target improve B&W video whereas the color cal. target is intended for color video?
There are some hints about that in the page:
Quote:
- color version for color printers
- grayscale version for black & white printers

If you are going to use the target in the field then you need to print it out first. Those two versions are simply for different types of printers. They are practically equal in terms of profiling results.

JDW wrote:
Second, what paper size would be ideal to print to? Should we use A3 paper, A4, B4?? Even if it matters little, which would be preferred a larger target?
You can use any paper size as long as you can satisfy the requirements of the shot: the goal is to shoot the target in such a way as to fill the whole frame and keep the target slightly out of focus.

JDW wrote:
Third, there are so many different camera settings. Creating a comprehensive set of profiles would be a formidable job. Must I truly create a separate profile for every single ISO setting, then repeat that under indoor and outdoor lighting, then repeat all of that for every level of depth of field, then do all of that for multiple lenses? If so, the sheer number of profiles and time required would be absolutely incredible. What kind of guidance can you provide on this point?
I recommend to start using Neat Video with a different workflow altogether. I recommend to start by building a fresh new noise profile for every clip you work with. Once you gain some initial experience with profiling, you will feel which camera settings are most influential regarding the noise, so you will know which camera parameters should be accounted for when building reusable profiles. Some initial guidance about that is provided in the user guide, please take a look there. However I still recommend to start with Auto Profile for every clip and only then to add reusable profiles.

JDW wrote:
Fourth, I see donated profiles on your website that were kindly made public by others for use with Neat Image, but none for Neat Video. Is there a reason why no one is using (or no one is donating) video profiles? Do more people use Neat Image than Neat Video?
The reason why we do not organize such a library of profiles on Neat Video website is that the camera/shooting parameters are much less reproducible between users in case of video recordings than in case of still photos. The absence of full support for any kind of standard way of handling metadata (similar to what EXIF does in still photos) in video editing applications is a factor here.
Also, in most cases it is better (more accurate) and faster to just build a new noise profile for a clip than to manually find a matching and accurate noise profile in some pre-existing set.

JDW wrote:
Fifth, when shooting the Calibration Target (printed on paper), should we cut the target exactly to size (so there is no white paper border around it, and then affix that to black paper? Or should the border around the target be white?
If that was critically important for Neat Video's profiling then we would specify these conditions in the instruction in the webpage. It is not important, there is a significant leeway there.

JDW wrote:
Sixth, you say to shoot the Calibration Target slightly out of focus, but then in another place you say to set the lens at Infinity or Macro. That isn't very exact information. Just how "out of focus" is IDEAL? Do I need to blur it out so the text is unreadable? Or do I make the focus just slightly fuzzy? And why does this even matter? (If you said, "blur out the cal. target until the text is just barely unreadable" would be rather specific information that I can easily follow, but "blur it slightly" is just too vague.)

The idea to make sure any details of the surface of the paper (where you printed out the target) disappear and are therefore not included in the noise analysis. So only slightly, no need to fully blur out the text.

Thank you,
Vlad
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