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Edited image almost near-black?

 
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mr_goodbomb



Joined: 11 Aug 2010
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:13 am    Post subject: Edited image almost near-black? Reply with quote

I have a short film that I've edited, and it has a fair amount of effects applied (color correction, mainly, levels, brightness, etc). The original shots were somewhat underlit, so we had to crank up some of the levels to make them more clear. This, obviously, increased the noise when we turned the levels and brightness up. I've tried it with multiple shots, but when I try to apply Neat Video to these shots, it gets very dark. I've played with the settings and found nothing that improves it. Neat Video is at the top of the effects list (when I first at it, it's at the bottom, I've drug it to the top, however it doesn't seem to be any different where it is in the hierarchy). When I go into the neat video adjustment settings, and try to select a consistent area to sample from, it appears as it does with all the filters on, and visible. However, once I apply them into the timeline, it's very dark. Here's an example.

Original shot.



Shot with filters (color correction, brightness, etc).



Shot with filters and Neat Video.




I purchased Neat Video specifically to clean up this protect. The color correct and other filters are very important to the project, as well, so I can't get rid of them. I'm wondering what the issue is here and how to fix it. Thank you very much.
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mr_goodbomb



Joined: 11 Aug 2010
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I figured it out. It was the 3 Strip Xtreme filter I had on it. I dunno why it does this. In some of the shots, that filter is needed, so I guess I'll have to choose between clean video and better color correction?

Also... I tried Neat Video with a lot of samples and it did great. However, now, trying it on this footage, I'm trying it back to back in a sample sequence and... it doesn't appear to be doing anything. I wonder what I'm doing wrong here?
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NVTeam



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 2238

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regading the color correction, I guess it should be possible to correct the color first (in one ad-hoc project) and then reduce noise in another.

About sampling, it is important to built a new noise profile and to use the most noisy area for that. If you (or Auto Profile itself) selects an with too weak noise then the stonger noise in other parts of the frame will not be considered noise and will not be reduced.

Vlad
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mr_goodbomb



Joined: 11 Aug 2010
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for the response. I've moved Remove Noise and the 2 Strip Xtreme to various places in the filters. If they're in the same clip together, they create that dark, dark screen.

I've tried re-sampling repeatedly, with more of less every usable area on the screen. It looks great in the sample window, and then I click "auto fine tune," or don't, and then I go into noise filter settings and try some extreme settings just to see if I can get it to show the most obvious alterations (for example, right now I'm trying 100% luma, 75% chroma, and $250 sharpening, just to try to get it show the most blatant changes possible). It looks VERY different and much cleaner in the sample window. Then I click apply, and it needs rendered. I render, and it looks identical to the copy of the same clip without alterations in the timeline next to it.
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NVTeam



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 2238

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about the temporal settings? Which filter radius is used? Try to adjust it and check preview in FCP, without re-rendering, just preview, it should change.

Vlad
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mr_goodbomb



Joined: 11 Aug 2010
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just tried it at 3 and 32 threshold, I still see no difference. I see the difference in the filter's preview, but not in the FCP preview when I pause on a frame. I'm jumping back and forth between the first frame of the two clips and see no difference.
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NVTeam



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please reset the threshold to the default position. Try to vary radius from 0 to 5. Select a frame in the middle of the clip, not on the edge. Make sure you see FCP preview in full resolution.

Vlad
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mr_goodbomb



Joined: 11 Aug 2010
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Threshold at 0, radius at 3, middle of the clip, full resolution, I'm seeing absolutely no change. And I don't mean the change isn' drastic, I mean I see absolutely nothing. In the filter's preview it looks great, but NOTHING happens to the clip when I click apply.

EDIT: Actually, it seems some are working now... no idea what the issue was. But the Xtreme filter is another thing.

I'm also not seeing a way to make the Xtreme filter and Neat Video ever sit in the same clip together. As soon as I turn Neat Video on, whether I've set it up or not, it goes black. Guess it's one or the other.
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NVTeam



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you synchronize (double-click) the clip and filter settings when going from one clip to another?
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mr_goodbomb



Joined: 11 Aug 2010
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NVTeam wrote:
Do you synchronize (double-click) the clip and filter settings when going from one clip to another?


Yes.

I may have an idea of what the issue is. It appears to be working with every clip except one. I made a new sequence and cut and paste a clip into it to test NeatVideo. I am used to Final Cut Pro, and got Final Cut Express JUST for the final render of any project I use with NV, because my Pro version is too old for NV, but I definitely like it better. Anyway, unlike Pro, where cutting and pasting into different sequences is very easy, it asked me some questions about the process which... I didn't understand. But I clicked ok. So, I'm assuming whatever mistake that was on my part is making it so it doesn't work with NV. The other filters work, but NV doesn't, and it's only this one shot. Here's the message I got, I tried cutting and pasting that same shot from an old version of the project to correct it and it appeared again. I am unfamiliar with this message because it doesn't happen in FCP.



I cut and paste that shot in after selecting "Create new" (third option down) and I noticed that, when I went to correct it in the filter settings, it showed me a sample of a different clip. It did the same thing earlier. And yes, I have the right clip selected. Peculiar.
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NVTeam



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you can reproduce the problem in a small test project, please e-mail the project and short test clip to support [at] neatvideo.com. We will reproduce the issue and investigate the causes.

Vlad
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mr_goodbomb



Joined: 11 Aug 2010
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NVTeam wrote:
If you can reproduce the problem in a small test project, please e-mail the project and short test clip to support [at] neatvideo.com. We will reproduce the issue and investigate the causes.

Vlad


Cutting and pasting the shot in from another, older version worked. Dunno what the issue was, but I'll be more careful with that message in the future.

The original issue of this thread with the other filter is still a problem.

Also, I really appreciate all your input and help. Thank you very much.
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NVTeam



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can reproduce the issue with 3 Strip Xtreme, it does darken the frame. Darkening depends on the Mix control, but that is not solution. I guess there is a bug in that color correction filter. A similar built-in Color Corrector 3-way work properly in the same place together with Neat Video.

Vlad
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MoldCAD



Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NVTeam wrote:
Do you synchronize (double-click) the clip and filter settings when going from one clip to another?


What is this about, Vlad - I assume this doesn't apply to Vegas workflow, or does it?

I've noticed that when I want to copy from a "done" clip and "Paste Event Attributes" to another one, the NV plug-in is copied but its configuration is NOT (unlike any other Vegas FX, which can be fine-tuned in one clip, and then copied onto other clips with this method while retaining all the settings).

Is this a known bug?
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NVTeam



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is about FCP only.

Yes, it is a known limitation caused by specifics of Vegas plug-in API. We will try to offer a solution in one of the next updates.

Vlad
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